Holdwater, in denial, responds
My photograph from USA TODAY, published for my membership to the All-USA Academic First Team, has appeared in the anti-Armenian TallArmenianTale.com – a website that hatefully denies the Armenian Genocide.
Holdwater, the ghostwriter of the hatesite, is apparently pissed off at my blogging about Turkish historian Taner Akcam’s findings that Holdwater is Murad Gumen, an ex-Disney cartoonist of Turkish desent.
Hilariously enough, Holdwater is now denying that he is Murad Gumen by saying his communication with the United States Holocaust Memorial Council he wrote about wasn’t really his because somebody else had written it and in order not to get somebody else in trouble he said he had written it. (It was through this communication that Akcam made Holdwater’s identity public). Mr. Gumen, stop embarrassing yourself.
The idiot, who continuously claims he has proven the Armenian Genocide never happened and is now saying he is not who he said he was, is even unable to find the source that first wrote about his comparison of Armenians to rodents.
I remember other aspects of Akcam’s more aggressive article, but I’ll bring up only one more: Taner Akcam claimed that I, Holdwater, called Armenians “rodents.”
[…]
But ask yourselves: before Akcam got his piece[s] through, there was no mention anywhere that I had called Armenians “rodents.”
In fact, if our haterguy looked closely at the same blog he is linking to (the previous website of Blogian) in his response, he would find out that I, not Taner Akcam, first reported Gumen’s comparison of Armenians to rodents, and in fact, a year ago. As quite usual, Gumen is lying – Akcam has never written about Gumen’s comparison of Armenians to rodents.
Interestingly enough, Gumen doesn’t bother to defend his racism by saying he actually created a “cute phrase” – Armeni-Lemmings – and placing it under a photograph of a rodent.
I had come up with a cute, and now actually rarely used (when I began the site, and was outraged to discover the massiveness of Armenian propaganda, there was more flippancy to my tone) phrase to describe the phenomenon, “Armeni-Lemmings,” which of course would not describe all Armenians; only the irrational genocide fanatics.
It is upsetting that Gumen refuses to take into consideration the fact of the importance of the commemoration and remembrance of the Armenian Genocide to every single Armenian.
The self-proclaimed humanist says he is calling rodents (“Armeni-Lemmings”) only those who are “irrational genocide fanatics,” knowing very well the extent of significance of the memory of the Armenian Genocide to the Armenian people.
No matter how much Gumen believes that the Armenian Genocide did not happen, he should know the line of respect to an entire people (if he is not a racist as he claims).
But again, consider the idiot you are dealing with.
To prove that I am a “fanatic”, for example, he refers to my “angry letter to The Jewish Advocate, criticizing them for identifying a photo as “alleged victims of the Armenian genocide.”
The fact of the matter is that “Armenian genocide” photos are undocumented, even Armin Wegner’s; some Armenian sites have sunk so low as to use documented photographs of Ottoman Muslims slaughtered by Armenians, in order to represent Armenian victims. While I don’t know which photograph The Jewish Advocate made use of, if the source of the photograph cannot be verified, an ethical journal must use a word such as “alleged.”
There are lots of things that Mr. Gumen doesn’t know, including the fact that he can be embarrassingly ignorant and stupid. The webpage he refers to has a link to my actual letter that he failed to read (oh, what a researcher).
If the idiot opened that link, he would see the photo I had written about (in fact, The Jewish Advocate acknowledged its mistake in silence by removing the ridiculous article from its website and its archives). And guess what the photo is?
I wonder if anything else on Earth can be more convincing to Murad Gumen than an old photograph with skeletons and a banner mentioning “Armenian cranes.” But again, genocide denial is not a simple rejection of the word “genocide” to describe the destruction of Ottoman Turkey’s native Armenian population. Denial is the micro-level refusal of accepting that a crime was committed against Turkey’s Armenian population.And to understand how embarrassingly short-sighted Mr. Gumen is, consider his unchallenged acceptance of a Turkish nationalist’s comment at this blog that “the recently discovered cave with the mass grave said to be of Armenian victims has been confirmed by European scientists to have been a Roman site.”If the idiot were to do a little bit research, he would find out that the Roman site had been reused during World War I as a mass grave. Whether used for Armenians or others, though, it will never be known. Because for some reason Mr. Gumen’s beloved Turkish Historical Society covered up the destruction of the mass grave by the Turkish military.We are not talking about a 90-year-old document, Mr. Gumen. This is a documented, photographed mass grave from last year that has been erased from the face of the Earth. Even if you don’t think there was Armenian Genocide, one wonders why would deniers like you not even accept the possibility of even one small mass grave of Armenian victims in Turkey.
And I wasn’t really able to grasp the point of your ass-kissing move, Mr. Gumen, of calling me an “obviously extremely intelligent person.” Perhaps the USA TODAY article you borrowed the photograph from gave you some insights to my activities, most of which are not Armenian as you might have noticed.
And may I ask why you failed to provide the link to the article? Is it because you didn’t want your readers to find out that I am not only Genocide “fanatic” but also Holocaust “fanatic” and that one reason USA TODAY named me one of America’s top students was for organizing Genocide and Holocaust Commemoration?
Or were you shocked with the coincidence that the USA TODAY article was from April 24, 2006 – the 91st anniversary of the Armenian Genocide? Perhaps you will be pleased to find out that when I was given the honor the founder of USA TODAY started his introduction with honoring the memory of the Armenian genocide victims. How about that for a “fanatic” like me?
Actually, I owe you for calling me a fanatic. Your name-calling balances out my “Armenian traitor” accusation I have received from some nationalist Armenians for my views on Turkish-Armenian reconciliation.
And I still believe in the reconciliation, Mr. Gumen. Because even though racist Turks like you 90 years ago have obviously carried out the Armenian Genocide, my own great-grandmother was saved by an ordinary Turkish family during the same horrors that some people you consider heroes brought upon my race.
16 Responses to “Holdwater, in denial, responds”
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Sudasanerutogh Vors Hampyureh on 03 Jul 2007 at 9:37 am #
Ays khent@ minagu kordz@ gneh te che lredesi bes mart mun eh? What a sick individual Ankara pawn this denier group they and he is! Cheyi kider MICKEY MOUSEi kdzoghnerun vori dzagu gla irent peranu. Hedakrkir lour mn eh asiga! So, Bravo Blogian webmasters! All is very interesting. Remember his GOAL as a sociopathic psychopath is to anger people like you guys and girls. It might be time soon to ignore this nude, exposed idiot. You see Gunem he hate being ignored. Gunem, Gumen, whatever, he — he is irrelevant and stuped. Completely nutball. Denying himself! LOL LMAOROTF DENYING HIS OWN SELF! How sad! Desparate! Depressing older middle aged man with a boy’s brain power! A world-class laughingstock! Don’t waste your time with this lonely sociopath who lives for the interaction with peoples on the net. His website = true joke. Let him piss and poop in his fantasy world. Don’t worry about his feces and urine. He small bad. deep bad breath they say. No women! He is lonely. Sick sick in head wants to be Greek sicko! So sad. Inku irh kaku dogh udi gshtani. He is hiding like a coward Hima al barab panermu usem vor kak udoghnere uspaghvin tarkmanelov. Aysor im kites kichmu khlink vazets. Ays kak udoghu ir voru yerp vor gu srpeh, ayt aden chi grnanr lav khosi, kani vor khosgerun yerek karortu kak en. Inchkan krem aytkan tram NEW JERSEYi yev NEW YORKi gu dzakhsen hay tarkmanoghneru vra. Irent meg pan usem. Gegek khorung hampyour dvek im voris dzagin.,,d’drelus intatskin. Shnorhagaluteun sudasan sudakhos dajigner. Leghabadar glan yerp desnan New Jersey yev ayt myurs kaghakin anun@. Mersinelu aden@ yegaV ulemn japonatsiyi bes khosim. Shad ulakh em. Kishel pali! Japonatsiner@ chen grnar asel ‘l yev r.’
Stop distorting on 03 Jul 2007 at 12:08 pm #
So you admit that the ridiculous claim that “Holdwater compares Armenians to rodents” belongs to you. It must be difficult for you to accept the facts in TAT so that you try vilifying Holdwater by saying such ignoble things. How pathetic!
Also, in his article, Holdwater admits that he can not prove that Akcam first wrote that claim. But he adds that it became very popular after his news. Why don’t you give that part of the article? Oh, wait a minute, that would be too honest for you!
You always call Holdwater “idiot” or “stupid”. Wow, you must be very angry. What makes you so? The reality he shows you?
Are these the only objections you can make to his very long article? You disappointed me…
BEFORE FINISHING ARE YOU GOING TO DELETE MY COMMENT AS YOU DID BEFORE?
Stop Deleting my Comments on 03 Jul 2007 at 12:15 pm #
So you admit that the ridiculous claim that “Holdwater compares Armenians to rodents” belongs to you. It must be difficult for you to accept the facts in TAT so that you try vilifying Holdwater by saying such ignoble things. How pathetic!
Also, in his article, Holdwater admits that he can not prove that Akcam first wrote that claim. But he adds that it became very popular after his news. Why don’t you give that part of the artcişe? Oh, wait a minute, that would be too honest for you!
You always call Holdwater “idiot” or “stupid”. Wow, you must be very angry. What makes you so? The reality he shows you?
Are these the only objections you can make to his very long article? You disappointed me…
BEFORE FINISHING ARE YOU GOING TO DELETE MY COMMENT AS YOU DID BEFORE?
Freesom of expression on 03 Jul 2007 at 12:18 pm #
Why do you keep deleting my comments?
So you admit that the ridiculous claim that “Holdwater compares Armenians to rodents” belongs to you. It must be difficult for you to accept the facts in TAT so that you try vilifying Holdwater by saying such ignoble things. How pathetic!
Also, in his article, Holdwater admits that he can not prove that Akcam first wrote that claim. But he adds that it became very popular after his news. Why don’t you give that part of the artcişe? Oh, wait a minute, that would be too honest for you!
You always call Holdwater “idiot” or “stupid”. Wow, you must be very angry. What makes you so? The reality he shows you?
Are these the only objections you can make to his very long article? You disappointed me…
BEFORE FINISHING ARE YOU GOING TO DELETE MY COMMENT AS YOU DID BEFORE?
Liar, Liar, Liar on 03 Jul 2007 at 12:20 pm #
Stop deleting my comments!
So you admit that the ridiculous claim that “Holdwater compares Armenians to rodents” belongs to you. It must be difficult for you to accept the facts in TAT so that you try vilifying Holdwater by saying such ignoble things. How pathetic!
Also, in his article, Holdwater admits that he can not prove that Akcam first wrote that claim. But he adds that it became very popular after his news. Why don’t you give that part of the artcişe? Oh, wait a minute, that would be too honest for you!
You always call Holdwater “idiot” or “stupid”. Wow, you must be very angry. What makes you so? The reality he shows you?
Are these the only objections you can make to his very long article? You disappointed me…
BEFORE FINISHING ARE YOU GOING TO DELETE MY COMMENT AS YOU DID BEFORE?
Stop Deleting on 03 Jul 2007 at 12:22 pm #
Stop deleting my comments
So you admit that the ridiculous claim that “Holdwater compares Armenians to rodents” belongs to you. It must be difficult for you to accept the facts in TAT so that you try vilifying Holdwater by saying such ignoble things. How pathetic!
Also, in his article, Holdwater admits that he can not prove that Akcam first wrote that claim. But he adds that it became very popular after his news. Why don’t you give that part of the artcişe? Oh, wait a minute, that would be too honest for you!
You always call Holdwater “idiot” or “stupid”. Wow, you must be very angry. What makes you so? The reality he shows you?
Are these the only objections you can make to his very long article? You disappointed me…
BEFORE FINISHING ARE YOU GOING TO DELETE MY COMMENT AS YOU DID BEFORE?
Genocide Myth on 03 Jul 2007 at 12:23 pm #
Keep on deleting my comments baby.
So you admit that the ridiculous claim that “Holdwater compares Armenians to rodents” belongs to you. It must be difficult for you to accept the facts in TAT so that you try vilifying Holdwater by saying such ignoble things. How pathetic!
Also, in his article, Holdwater admits that he can not prove that Akcam first wrote that claim. But he adds that it became very popular after his news. Why don’t you give that part of the artcişe? Oh, wait a minute, that would be too honest for you!
You always call Holdwater “idiot” or “stupid”. Wow, you must be very angry. What makes you so? The reality he shows you?
Are these the only objections you can make to his very long article? You disappointed me…
BEFORE FINISHING ARE YOU GOING TO DELETE MY COMMENT AS YOU DID BEFORE?
Ruben on 03 Jul 2007 at 1:33 pm #
The most interesting thing about this guy is that he takes himself so seriously, that 80% of his letter is basically him complaining that people refuse to analyze his garbage. His argument is that we know deep within our dishonest little hearts, that he’s right, so we attack him instead of his crap. He truly believes that by publicizing his “research” in a true quest for the truth, he is being vilified instead of his sources. I particularly liked him trying to discredit me for not having read “Armenia: The Secrets of a Terrorist State.” I’ll take a bus to Ankara after work to pick that baby up.
Then you add to that the fact that he can only be mentally challenged if he can look at his body of work and expect people (and himself) to believe that he is somehow honest. His message would be much better received if he did not write hateful rhetoric in one sentence, calling 99 out of 100 Armenians fanatics full of hate, and then remind everyone how much he loves Armenians in the next.
Cheers
Genocide Myth on 03 Jul 2007 at 3:50 pm #
You think you are very smart, huh?
First you deleted my comments and now you’re hiding them from the public. How typical of a fanatic Armenian!
You can not deceive me and the public by your biased blog and fascist comment policy.
balaban on 03 Jul 2007 at 7:25 pm #
why does HOLDWATER make armemıan dıaspora so angry ? ıf he tells lıe(ı dont thınk so) u can show ur documents and can correct hıs lıes.. But dıaspora can not do that.. just call hım wıth some facıst words.. Cause HOLDWATER is thinking different .. and thats make someone angry..
Hayk on 04 Jul 2007 at 7:25 pm #
“Then you add to that the fact that he can only be mentally challenged if he can look at his body of work and expect people (and himself) to believe that he is somehow honest.”
if i actually looked through his entire body of work, i’d give myself a medal for incredible endurance, while losing a lot of self-respect for having wasted so much of my life… Holdwater fans (and he, too) want people to read his rants, but i refuse! I agree to risk being accused of “fear to look truth in the eyes.”
Holdwater’s site is so saturated with fallacies, insults, and completely unreliable information (which, it seems, he intentionally puts in parenthesis here and there to sink his almost non-existent credibility even lower), that one needs only a small sample to stop looking further. Being a very curious person, I’ve read my share of Turkish viewpoints, and this is by far the worst quality. I dont see a single reason for reading a badly written text that kills it’s own credibility almost immediately and keeps kicking the dead thing throughout.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Rh2fwfnKf6kJ:www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/egmont_bonnier_scandinavian_team_up/+I%27m+also+not+quite+grasping+the+nuances+of+this+article+about+Turkish-American+cartoonist+Murad+Gumen+being+revealed+as+the+driving+fo on 05 Jul 2007 at 2:09 am #
Collapsure! What someone write reveal alot about what goes on in her mind. That man says that MURAD “HOLDWATER” GUMEN he says, and he admits it at http://www.muradgumen.net and above, he have this or that he says “gone into hiding.” Indeed noone is in hiding but your gay self, hiding from those reality of you balding, littl ehair-left angry “Greek-Armenian WANTED-TO BE BORN” self and your ACTING LIKE TEENAGER FLAMER when you are APPROACHING YOUR FATHER’s AGE! TIME TO GROW UP, stope reading comic books CRACKED/MAD you are like 50 or sixty years old! GROW UP MOOOORAADDDD!!! He love attention go best thing to do is ignore his lonely old man face. He is 50 or 60 now, right?
MURRADDDDDD! Mickey MOUSE! Quack quack Donal Duck! Maybe some Armenian buy your movies to see it and you can make money. Look what comic book people are saying!
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Rh2fwfnKf6kJ:www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/egmont_bonnier_scandinavian_team_up/+I%27m+also+not+quite+grasping+the+nuances+of+this+article+about+Turkish-American+cartoonist+Murad+Gumen+being+revealed+as+the+driving+force+behind+an+anti-Armenian+web+site.+I+did+find+it+interesting+that+Gumen+was+traced+through+correspondence+with+the+United+States+Holocaust+Memorial+Museum,+and+that+the+writer+firmly+believes+that+this+revelation+will+cost+the+cartoonist+any+future+Disney+work.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
The world collapses about your facade. So sadd.
The Myotis on 05 Jul 2007 at 3:06 am #
I wonder if the guy who copy-pasted 6 identical comments above has realized that he did not give them enough time to load and now has 6 testaments to his own antiarmenic paranoia.
And yes, Holdwater certainly did write that letter. If It truly was someone else’s work, he would have changed his site to say that immediately, rather than removing the incriminating evidence and re-adding it later with an ‘explanation’.
Sloppy, Gumen, sloppy.
And he certainly did compare Armenians with lemmings (and Ackam was certainly not the first to remark on this). Holdwater no thought this was harmless; perhaps not realizing that comparing and ethnic group to an animal will almost inevitably end in the dehumanization of said group, particularly an overpopulated rodent. And perhaps Gumen did not realize (though I think he did) that in making this comparison, he has insinuated Armenians are very overpopulated shortsighted vole-like rodents that, once their population cycle reaches its peak, will swarm across the tundra in a massive horde and devour huge amounts of vegetation, eventual resulting in a mass die-off.
In any case, it is well known that lemming migrations are triggered by food shortages, and rather than following other lemmings, they disperse chaotically.
His claim that this term was only made to target ‘Armenians fanatics’, but I can image that if I was to go around using the term ‘Jew-lemming’ or ‘Jew-locusts’, or comparing Jews to any other swarming animal, and then say I was only referring to ‘Zionist fanatics’, would anybody doubt anti-Semitism was present? Unlikely.
But worse things than that have been seen on his website; in particular, I remember him publishing an essay be Samuel Weems that made a distinct and direct comparison between Armenians (the Diaspora, particularly) and a Vipers, and without dumbing it down and pretending he was only referring to certain political factions or that he was just making a reference to claims Armenians make. This was a full-out attack on Armenians who simply lived outside their country. “Wherever Armenians go throughout the world they den up together just like the snakes of my youth” he writes, also citing “citizens loudly objected to the Armenian takeover of the city’s markets, shops and cafes and even the hospitals.” Biased Gumen may be, but the works of Weems easily outweigh him in unabashed and unedited racism. You cannot possibly read “No nation can ever give the Armenians enough to satisfy their greed and lust for other people’s lands and property” and pretend you don’t detect bias.
Nor is it the first time Armenians have been shown as snakes (remember Kerim Kerimov) nor is it the first time an diasporan ethnicity has been depicted as a giant snake bent on world domination (http://www.rotten.com/library/hoaxes/zion-protocols/protocols_english.gif).
P.S. our documents have already been shown, proven, and peer-reviewed. But people will beleive what they want to beleive, and Gumen allows them to do just that. You dont think that Holocaust deniers don’t have sources? Do Jewish communities have to go through the evidence they present and discount it piece by piece? Hardly.
Genocide Myth on 06 Jul 2007 at 3:21 pm #
@The Myotis
I have little doubt that Blogian first removed my comments and then made them visible when I keep sending the same messages so that he can put me in a antiarmenic paranoid situation in other’s eyes. It was a nice try!
reader on 19 Jul 2007 at 7:35 am #
lol would someone from wordpress explain to the idiot that the blog script doesn’t permit “removing” comments then making them visible. Well, the guy is denial.
Turkish Realist on 09 Apr 2008 at 6:31 pm #
I just want to say something. This guy, a New Yorker, Murad Gumen, has never seen Turkey once, never seen Turkish people living there, never seen Armenian people living there either, yet he writes tons of mess that he believes to be true about the Armenian Genocide.
I advice him to just feel free to come to Turkey and breathe the air of the country, meet her people and then come to conclusions concerning the genocide. Filling up himself like a rechargeable battery by the unending Turkish official theses does nothing to enlighten him. By the way, I don’t really think he likes to be enlightened, he is just a two-legged trumpet of the Turkish Deep-State’s denial.