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	<title>Comments on: Nagorno-Karabakh: From Ideal to Real Solutions</title>
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	<link>http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/11/22/nagorno-karabakh-from-ideal-to-real-solutions/</link>
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		<title>By: Onnik Krikorian</title>
		<link>http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/11/22/nagorno-karabakh-from-ideal-to-real-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1668</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik Krikorian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogian.hayastan.com/?p=1467#comment-1668</guid>
		<description>Simon, not many people think Moscow was a huge step forwards although they do admit it was a start. Mainly this is because Azerbaijan has committed itself to some kind of peace-building initiatives which it hasn&#039;t allowed before under Ilham (under Heydar there were many visits by Armenian and Azerbaijani activists and journalists), plus also Turkey&#039;s involvement of sorts which will work to change opinion in Baku.

BTW: As for Ilham, there was word of changing the constitution to allow him to run for a third term -- apparently an &quot;independent&quot; initiative, but I guess you&#039;re thinking what I&#039;m thinking. Otherwise, people were thinking about him handing over power to his wife. Unfortunately, until Azerbaijan&#039;s opposition gets its act together, we&#039;re talking about an Aliyev dynasty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon, not many people think Moscow was a huge step forwards although they do admit it was a start. Mainly this is because Azerbaijan has committed itself to some kind of peace-building initiatives which it hasn&#8217;t allowed before under Ilham (under Heydar there were many visits by Armenian and Azerbaijani activists and journalists), plus also Turkey&#8217;s involvement of sorts which will work to change opinion in Baku.</p>
<p>BTW: As for Ilham, there was word of changing the constitution to allow him to run for a third term &#8212; apparently an &#8220;independent&#8221; initiative, but I guess you&#8217;re thinking what I&#8217;m thinking. Otherwise, people were thinking about him handing over power to his wife. Unfortunately, until Azerbaijan&#8217;s opposition gets its act together, we&#8217;re talking about an Aliyev dynasty.</p>
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		<title>By: Blogian</title>
		<link>http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/11/22/nagorno-karabakh-from-ideal-to-real-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1666</link>
		<dc:creator>Blogian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 05:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogian.hayastan.com/?p=1467#comment-1666</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Artyom! How&#039;s the ethnic conflict course going that you are teaching?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Artyom! How&#8217;s the ethnic conflict course going that you are teaching?</p>
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		<title>By: Blogian</title>
		<link>http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/11/22/nagorno-karabakh-from-ideal-to-real-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1665</link>
		<dc:creator>Blogian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 05:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogian.hayastan.com/?p=1467#comment-1665</guid>
		<description>Hi Raffi,

Thanks for the comments. I agree with much of what you said. I do think, nonetheless, that we can help Azeris tone down the nationalist sentiment. I think we have refused to tolerate some of their unharmful intolerance, such as crazy claims to some songs such as Seri Gelin. I mean is it going to hurt us if we say that Seri Gelin is an Azeri song? I don&#039;t know if it is, but if Azeris are going crazy about that song let&#039;s just say it is an Azeri song and get over with that.

There are many thinks Armenians can do, such as recognize the Khojalu massacre. The truth is that most people in Armenia admit it was massacre but they either justify it or try to bring up the Azeri massacres against Armenians or try to make Azeris guilty about it. OK, I get the point that Khojalu was not black and white and that Azerbaijan has imrpisoned its most independent journalist for over 10 years for basically saying the Armenian account of Khojalu may be true, but when do we start seeing victims of any of these massacres as humans versus ?seing them as Armenians or as Azeris?  

I think there needs to be a military tribunal, set by Azerbaijan and Armenia in the territory of Georgia where people who did Khojalu, Sumgayit, Djulfa are brought to trial. This would be a good demonstration that there are criminals in both sides and that both will be punished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Raffi,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments. I agree with much of what you said. I do think, nonetheless, that we can help Azeris tone down the nationalist sentiment. I think we have refused to tolerate some of their unharmful intolerance, such as crazy claims to some songs such as Seri Gelin. I mean is it going to hurt us if we say that Seri Gelin is an Azeri song? I don&#8217;t know if it is, but if Azeris are going crazy about that song let&#8217;s just say it is an Azeri song and get over with that.</p>
<p>There are many thinks Armenians can do, such as recognize the Khojalu massacre. The truth is that most people in Armenia admit it was massacre but they either justify it or try to bring up the Azeri massacres against Armenians or try to make Azeris guilty about it. OK, I get the point that Khojalu was not black and white and that Azerbaijan has imrpisoned its most independent journalist for over 10 years for basically saying the Armenian account of Khojalu may be true, but when do we start seeing victims of any of these massacres as humans versus ?seing them as Armenians or as Azeris?  </p>
<p>I think there needs to be a military tribunal, set by Azerbaijan and Armenia in the territory of Georgia where people who did Khojalu, Sumgayit, Djulfa are brought to trial. This would be a good demonstration that there are criminals in both sides and that both will be punished.</p>
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		<title>By: artyom</title>
		<link>http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/11/22/nagorno-karabakh-from-ideal-to-real-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1664</link>
		<dc:creator>artyom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 04:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogian.hayastan.com/?p=1467#comment-1664</guid>
		<description>excellent simon!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent simon!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Raffi Kojian</title>
		<link>http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/11/22/nagorno-karabakh-from-ideal-to-real-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1659</link>
		<dc:creator>Raffi Kojian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogian.hayastan.com/?p=1467#comment-1659</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s quite a thorough background/analysis!

It&#039;s true that it&#039;s probably easier for Armenians, as victors in the war (at least territorially) to be &quot;bigger&quot; about certain things, but I also think even before and during the war, Armenians were, for the most part well behaved, and were clearly the victims of Azeri aggression.  The pogroms in Sumgait and Baku that Azeris like to either forget, or consider to be Soviet provocations were for the most part big Azeri mobs, who knew what they were doing and which houses they were doing it at, without police intervention (or even with police support).  I don&#039;t think they can put the blame on the Soviet authorities no matter how much they&#039;d like to.  

The Azeris in Armenia, though they unfortunately left, did not experience at all what their Armenians counterparts went through.  I think the Azeris left partly from feeling unwelcome anymore in Armenia, but also partly because they&#039;d seen what their people had done to the Armenians and simply had to wonder if that would come back to haunt them.

Khojalu I think you summed up well - it was the one clear and unnecessary instance of Armenian bloodletting that should never have happened - and which if I recall Monte tried to stop (or at least was mortified at having learned about).

And yes, post-war, Armenians have continued I think to be quite reasonable and fair.  They have not made efforts to even settle much of the lands which they don&#039;t even claim, the districts of Jebrayil, etc where they have openly said they&#039;re ready to return them for peace.  The Azeri behavior, orchestrated in large part by their government, has been so dehumanizing and reprehensible that it&#039;s not even worth going into here.  I think there is no problem in Armenia with how Azeris are portrayed or thought of...  but in Azerbaijan, it&#039;s the complete opposite.  There is so much work to be done before people there can see clearly they are not these poor, total victims, that Armenians are human too.  Many years of state propaganda needs to be reversed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s quite a thorough background/analysis!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that it&#8217;s probably easier for Armenians, as victors in the war (at least territorially) to be &#8220;bigger&#8221; about certain things, but I also think even before and during the war, Armenians were, for the most part well behaved, and were clearly the victims of Azeri aggression.  The pogroms in Sumgait and Baku that Azeris like to either forget, or consider to be Soviet provocations were for the most part big Azeri mobs, who knew what they were doing and which houses they were doing it at, without police intervention (or even with police support).  I don&#8217;t think they can put the blame on the Soviet authorities no matter how much they&#8217;d like to.  </p>
<p>The Azeris in Armenia, though they unfortunately left, did not experience at all what their Armenians counterparts went through.  I think the Azeris left partly from feeling unwelcome anymore in Armenia, but also partly because they&#8217;d seen what their people had done to the Armenians and simply had to wonder if that would come back to haunt them.</p>
<p>Khojalu I think you summed up well &#8211; it was the one clear and unnecessary instance of Armenian bloodletting that should never have happened &#8211; and which if I recall Monte tried to stop (or at least was mortified at having learned about).</p>
<p>And yes, post-war, Armenians have continued I think to be quite reasonable and fair.  They have not made efforts to even settle much of the lands which they don&#8217;t even claim, the districts of Jebrayil, etc where they have openly said they&#8217;re ready to return them for peace.  The Azeri behavior, orchestrated in large part by their government, has been so dehumanizing and reprehensible that it&#8217;s not even worth going into here.  I think there is no problem in Armenia with how Azeris are portrayed or thought of&#8230;  but in Azerbaijan, it&#8217;s the complete opposite.  There is so much work to be done before people there can see clearly they are not these poor, total victims, that Armenians are human too.  Many years of state propaganda needs to be reversed.</p>
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		<title>By: Hayaser</title>
		<link>http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/11/22/nagorno-karabakh-from-ideal-to-real-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1657</link>
		<dc:creator>Hayaser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogian.hayastan.com/?p=1467#comment-1657</guid>
		<description>please stop refering to that marz as nagorno-karabakh makh fakh schmakh whatever that ugly stupid azerGAY word is

respect our Hayutyun and our hin ancestors who named that reigion.....ARTSAKH

when you refer to it the name our enemies use, that shows that they are winning</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>please stop refering to that marz as nagorno-karabakh makh fakh schmakh whatever that ugly stupid azerGAY word is</p>
<p>respect our Hayutyun and our hin ancestors who named that reigion&#8230;..ARTSAKH</p>
<p>when you refer to it the name our enemies use, that shows that they are winning</p>
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		<title>By: Nikephoros</title>
		<link>http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/11/22/nagorno-karabakh-from-ideal-to-real-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1655</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikephoros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogian.hayastan.com/?p=1467#comment-1655</guid>
		<description>&quot;Among classical [Islamic] jurists (Shaybani 1966 ;Tabari 1990. 15-6 ; Ibn Rushd 1995, 656), the peace between dar al-lslam [abode of peace] and Dar al-harb [abode of war] means the temporary suspension of military conflict. Despite their disagreement on the duration of a peace treaty, Muslim jurists are in accord on the provisional status of peace with non-believers. The term used is &quot;hudna&quot; meaning &quot;truce&quot; or &quot;armistice&quot;. This view is totally consistent with the principle of total war against polytheism that we discussed above.&quot;

From the Canadian Thesis:
Islam and War : the disparity between the technological-normative evolution of modern war and the doctrine of Jihad
http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/s4-bin/Main/ItemDisplay?l=0&amp;l_ef_l=0&amp;id=&amp;v=0&amp;lvl=1&amp;coll=18&amp;rt=1&amp;itm=25934730&amp;rsn=pdfsearch.tmp&amp;all=1&amp;dt=PD+&#124;jihad&#124;&amp;spi=-&amp;rp=1&amp;vo=1

pg. 115 but on my PDF reader it is pg. 134</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Among classical [Islamic] jurists (Shaybani 1966 ;Tabari 1990. 15-6 ; Ibn Rushd 1995, 656), the peace between dar al-lslam [abode of peace] and Dar al-harb [abode of war] means the temporary suspension of military conflict. Despite their disagreement on the duration of a peace treaty, Muslim jurists are in accord on the provisional status of peace with non-believers. The term used is &#8220;hudna&#8221; meaning &#8220;truce&#8221; or &#8220;armistice&#8221;. This view is totally consistent with the principle of total war against polytheism that we discussed above.&#8221;</p>
<p>From the Canadian Thesis:<br />
Islam and War : the disparity between the technological-normative evolution of modern war and the doctrine of Jihad<br />
<a href="http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/s4-bin/Main/ItemDisplay?l=0&#038;l_ef_l=0&#038;id=&#038;v=0&#038;lvl=1&#038;coll=18&#038;rt=1&#038;itm=25934730&#038;rsn=pdfsearch.tmp&#038;all=1&#038;dt=PD+" rel="nofollow">http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/s4-bin/Main/ItemDisplay?l=0&#038;l_ef_l=0&#038;id=&#038;v=0&#038;lvl=1&#038;coll=18&#038;rt=1&#038;itm=25934730&#038;rsn=pdfsearch.tmp&#038;all=1&#038;dt=PD+</a>|jihad|&amp;spi=-&amp;rp=1&amp;vo=1</p>
<p>pg. 115 but on my PDF reader it is pg. 134</p>
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